I seem to get this question a lot, “Should I use a limiter in my mixes?”. Usually what people are asking is whether or not to mix with a limiter on their master fader (mix bus). Some of the confusion may even come from people like myself who tell you to use a limiter for reference mixes. But that is very different than mixing through a limiter or limiting your mixes before mastering. Let’s clear things up.
Why A Limiter Is Helpful
In case you weren’t aware, a limiter is basically a compressor with a super high compression ratio. It is built to really turn down peaks, limiting the dynamic range, thereby allowing you to turn up the volume of your track. At it’s core, a good limiter can help make your mixes nice and loud. Sweet!
So if a limiter can quickly and easily make your mixes louder, shouldn’t you throw one on the master fader, crank it up, and bounce down the mix? Not so fast. The very same thing that makes a limiter helpful, is what can actually ruin your mix. The reducing of the dynamic range really can change the sound of a mix, especially if you are still in the mixing phase, trying to develop your sound to begin with.
Don’t Make Things Harder On Yourself
When you are mixing tracks, your focus shouldn’t be on making your mix loud. Rather it should be on making your mix musical and punchy. This can and should be done without limiting on your mix bus. Give yourself the “rule” that you will never put a limiter on your master fader while you are still mixing and you will go far. Rely solely on compression, EQ, and a your other bag of tools on a track by track basis to get things working nicely.
If you limit while you mix, you will end up fighting with the limiter. You will have a skewed idea of your dynamics, and musicality can easily be lost. This isn’t a good thing. Don’t make things harder on yourself by putting a limiter where it won’t shine. Instead get a great mix first, limit later.
So When Can You Limit Your Mixes?
The only time you really want to bring in a limiter on your mixes is at the end, when the mix is done. And really this is only for bouncing down a mix reference for you or the client, allowing your mixes to be as loud as commercial releases so you can really compare how they sound out in the real world. When it is time to get your mixes ready for mastering, take the limiter off. Why? Because limiting is really intended for the mastering phase and your mastering engineer can do nothing with a mix that is squashed to kingdom come.
I hear your issue already, “But what if I’m the one mastering my own music? Why not limit the mix right then and there on the mix bus and call it a day?” Great question! Like I said, limiting should really be saved for the mastering phase. So if (like me) you tend to master your own material, still take the limiter off, bounce out final mixes (in 24 bit) and then bring those into a mastering session. When using limiting (and all mastering effects really), you want to deal with the final stereo wave files, not the multi-track mixes. It allows you to take a balanced, clear, and solid mix, and then focus only on polishing that stereo mix to perfection, which includes making it louder.
Limiters, Know Your Place!
Limiters are a gift from heaven really. They make your already awesome mixes louder. But they (like many things in life) are a double edged sword. If you over limit and go trigger happy you will end up with flat, un-musical mix what no one will like listening too. If you use them where they belong you will do just fine. So experiment, learn what works, and stick to it!
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I have a doubt… An engineer friend of mine uses to put a limiter on the master fader just to protect his monitors… I mean, we mix things at -15 dBFS more or less… And the limit works on 0 dBFS, so it just squash a small amount of peaks… Is that good for the monitors health? Is it necessary at all?
I hope I made my english understandable… 😀
Tks
lmao. he means that in case you accidentally raise your levels all up or anything like that happens it might blow up your monitors. if you have a limiter that wont happen
I hate to admit it, but I’m a limiter addict. I need to repent. Thanks for the reminder of how great and dangerous limiting can be.
I sometimes put limiters on parts of the mix (like the one built in to the logic compressor) simply to act as a high ratio compressor. Obviously this is dangerous, but if I’m trying to really crush a track it can help. I’m not sure of this is a bad practice, but I really see no reason to use a compressor with a brickwall ratio if a limiter is made to do just that.
Generally, No! Do all the mixing, stop. Bounce it down / export it to a stereo wav. Then concentrate on mastering and all the compression etc afterwards.
It will give you a much more consistent sound across tracks on an album this way
I feel the decision whether to mix though eq and dynamics controllers has to be made case by case. Different styles, applications and personal taste play a big part in choices made. If a style has an inherantly delicate characteristic it would make no sense at all the squeeze space out of the mix. With ‘classical’ music transparency is the primary objective and there is a spectrum which spans from this approach to the all-out multiband monster required for styles like punk rock or hip-hop. The latter kinds of styles often require a method of mixing where the peaks can be exaggerated into the limits of a dynamics controller; this will ineveitably cause other elements of the track to dip but this is where that ‘jumpin’ out the speakers’ style of rock’n’roll mix gets it’s attitude and excitement. Leaving it to the mastering lab leads to a polite compromise which is fine if you require ‘polite’.
Mixing though VCA’s tends to take years of practice before it starts to sound right but the skills are definitely worth aquiring.
Go on! Be brave! xsx
i think you should put the limiter in the mix after your done mixing and let the peaks barely touch it just to level off a small tiny tiny TINY amount of peaks so when you master you know your sound will be consistent and no peaks will rise above this level which will help your mastering limiter and it wont fluxuate and “pump” in certain areas
That makes a lot of sense…so no wild peaks get to mess with the mastering…I think I’ll do that after each song is mixed and going to stereo track just before mastering. Thanks for the tip…
Graham – When you say:
” So if (like me) you tend to master your own material, still take the limiter off, bounce out final mixes (in 24 bit) and then bring those into a mastering session. When using limiting (and all mastering effects really), you want to deal with the final stereo wave files, not the multi-track mixes. It allows you to take a balanced, clear, and solid mix, and then focus only on polishing that stereo mix to perfection, which includes making it louder.”
Are you saying to bounce each individual part of your piece separately before mastering as apposed to bouncing the final track as one wav file with all the parts playing together?! As you can probably tell, I’m very new to this and I’m trying to read up as much as I can about the proper way to master a track. Thanks in advance…
Hi Taj,
No, I’m saying simply take off the limiter on your master fader and then bounce down your mix to a single stereo wave file like normal. Just without limiting. Hope that clears it up.
Its never straight forward when it comes to “should i use it or not”
my advice would be this..
If you plan on getting your mix mastered professionally then do not use a limiter or compressor on the master channel.
Leave between 4~6 db headroom for the mastering process, this way a limiter will not be needed.
If you plan on mastering your own mix then why the hell not add a limiter, its common practice to, but how its used is the vital difference between a good master and a poor master.
Pushing the levels too hard will cause mayor pumping effects between the quieter and louder parts, the dynamic range will get a battering and it will sound just wrong.
The limiter, for mastering, should be used lightly or invisibly, just enough to control the peaks no more then 2~3db ideally with fast attack and release times.
Try also adding a compressor before the limiter, this will help reduce the severity of the low and high peaks and reduce the flat sound and unwanted pumping.
Equal care should be taken again when using a compressor.
Too much and you risk loosing your dynamic range and feeling.
Experiment with attack and release times to keep a good feel, and keep the ratio above 2.1.
Personally i don’t see the point in mixing down and then starting a mastering session when, depending on your DAW, you can do it all from there. Why make more work than needed??
Just remember when mixing to leave between 4~6 db of headroom, and don’t add the limiter and/or compressor until your mix is finished, otherwise you end up battling with the 2 during the mixing process 😉
Works for me anyways 🙂
I am currently going through the production process from recording a friend’s band live to final master for duplication.
My goal is to have consistency in the sound so the finished cd sounds like a seamless show (I’m cross fading crowd noise to combine tracks from different parts of the show), and luckily, recording live certainly gives me 8 tracks (I used a Roland VS2400CD without the added 8-track expander, so I had 8 simultaneous recording tracks available for recording) that are very consistent in the recording – levels you name it. It’s a three piece -acoustic guitar, bass, drums. Not a lot of guitar solo stuff to have to punch up etc.
Even so, it’s been tricky. I always mix on the Roland, get it just right, then record the mix to two track, burn those off and pull them into the computer for assembly, cd marking, and it is at that point that I add EQ, just a little compression, mastering effects and finally, limiting, often rolling off the bass quite a bit – those lows below 100 cause havoc with your overall sound (think mud plus less auditory high end), but that’s another topic.
I have has success doing the entire mastering process first, exporting the tracks to WAV files, and pulling them back into my software, solely for the limiting step. Just to make it cd level loud, that’s it.
The advice to get your mixes down to two track at the highest level without distortion is a very good one – if you limit a source that is too low, it makes everything louder, yes, but if you are overcompressing, raising the noise floor too much, limiting just makes all that louder too.
So use it carefully, and hopefully, if you have a good loud mix and have used compression, EG and ambience/master effects well (there is no technology substitute for a good ear), you only need to use it to get the loudness of the final product to the finish line. The success of limiting has a lot to do with the attention to the details of all the steps prior to that last step in the process.
Happy recording!
B
Hey Graham, I know this is an old post but hopefully you see this. I’ve been using a limiter at the very end of my mix just to turn the whole thing way down so there’s headroom to master. Should I abandon this in favor of just turning the fader down before exporting or is there some other thing I’m missing?
Yeah, I would just turn down the master fader.
I will start doing that then. Thank you sir 🙂
If you wouldn’t constantly preach that clipping is the absolute devil, you might see that it can be a real alternative to a limiter on the master out, and in fact do a much better job than any limiter when it comes to music genres like EDM, hardstyle, or trance.
For the most part, a clipper is more transparent dealing with quick transients than a limiter will be, due to limiters actually changing the shape of the wave based on a set of attack and release characteristics. As clippers are instant and don’t use attack and release, the integrity of highly transient audio is better preserved.
Great thoughts Gregor. Thanks for sharing.
This. I’ve started mixing into the red again and using my ears/eq (on offending elements/tracks) to banish distortion and i have never had better mix downs. Clipping is not the devil, distortion is. Swap a limiter for those weird things either side of your head and say hello to more level, musicality and fun.
Hi. 🙂
What about limiters use in the instruments track channels Self?
or should not use limiters in there and and only use in master channel after exporting in wave without effect on the master channel for mastering session.
thanks for info.
grtz…
When i start my production , first thing i do is put a limiter at peak 0-db and turn it up all the way up so that i can have a good know of what i am doing.
All the channels are at approximately -14-36DB. When i am done with mixing – i remove the limiter… and have a overall volume of the master by -24DB, which means its a really low volume of my track,
What is the best way to push the volume up to -6db headroom for the mastering process?
A) Increase the channels one by one so that everything matches at -6-
B) Use a limiter on the master to higher it to -6
C) Send it to mastering with -24DB?
Im pretty new at this aswell but, would like to have some help with it since i never seen to get it right.
If sending it to mastering, I wouldn’t put any kind of limiter on there. Just send your quiet mix. He or she can gain it up.
What about adding a limiter to subgroups or to specific channels? I see it all the time with different mix engineers where they will EQ, Compress, Etc Etc Etc and at the end they will put an L1 or other limiter and take off 1-6dB of gain. I know this is different than putting a limiter on the stereo bus because you’re not affecting the entire mix this way. What are some situations that would call for an engineer to put a limiter on a single channel or on say a subgroup like the drums or other group? How can you use limiting to improve your mix if you’re not talking about putting it on the stereo bus?
Thanks!!
Hello Graham,
What about using a limiter on the master mix bus but not the main?
Gram is the Man!
Hey Graham, thanks for the post — very informative! I am new to recording and mixing and was wondering what you mean when you say “bouncing down a mix reference” or “bounce out final mixes”.
Great question Zak – I mean when you render or mix down all the multitracks in your session to a stereo file to release to the world.
I’m not going to say that this is bad information, but I’m not a fan of broad rules that oversimplify things. Just because an amateur squishes tracks to a pulp with a limiter doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it’s uses.
Pre-limiting on crunch time with a super long release with absolute peaks barely kissing on GR on tracks can be used if you need a quick starter. Pensado has a TON of videos where he pre-limits vocal tracks. Also, if you know beforehand that the snare is going to be the loudest instrument in the mix, why mangle the master bus when you can do half and half between the track and the mastering limiter and make for less artifacts in other parts of the mix.
I will say from my mastering work that overlimiting is one of the few effects that you can’t really recover from, but any effect is destructive if overused. I would say do it, ruin a few mixes, then learn from it!
gain stage correctly and u wont need a limiter until the mastering stage. they are useful to have on during track production as a way to protect your monitors, but if your watching levels anyway then you wont need one
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my track is ready and when i started to mix i found there was a limiter on the master channel any tips to get my mix done
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