It’s the age old question of songwriting: which comes first the music or the lyrics? On the surface this is purely a matter of preference. Clearly wonderful songs have been written from both angles. But if you dig a little deeper you discover the subtle nuances of each approach and how they can affect the song’s final form.
Via Soumyadeep Paul Flickr
Poetry Set To Music
If you’re of the mindset that to write a good song you must first start with lyrics, chances are you’re a word guy or gal. You like words, ideas, themes, etc. And the greatest expression of all three of those things is in poetry. It may seem old fashion to some, but poetry has been one of the all time greatest expressions of art in world history.
It would be no surprise then that to write a song is simply to set your poetry to music. This mindset is built on the foundational assumption that music only serves the words. There is a definitive order of priority and rank. Both are important and vital to a great song, but the music must exist to put the lyrics on display.
The Results Of Lyrics First
In most cases, the lyrics first songwriting approach gives you a few things. It gives you a song that has clear direction lyrically, with a concrete theme or idea. It also leaves you with melodies that move around a lot and can vary from line to line.
Now this isn’t inherently a bad thing, it’s simply a result of a lyric first approach. You have great lyrics that need to fit, so you make the melody and song progression fit the words. The result is generally a lack of catchy hooks, but instead the song is memorable because it has such quotable lyrics.
Music With Occasional Words
If you’re of the mindset that a great song is clearly a piece of music with potential and occasional words that are sung, chances are you are a music and rhythm nut. You love riffs, melodies, and inverted chords. In fact you love music so much that lyrics aren’t even a necessity to create a great song.
Much like the lyric first mindset, the music first mindset is built on a foundational assumption that lyrics exist only or primarily to serve the music and the vocal melody. The lyrics are there to put the music on display.
The Result Of Music First
When you go the music first route, you tend to write songs with definitive structures and melodies that are both catchy and balanced. You give the listener a clear and memorable hook that sticks with them for a long time to come. Lyrics, however, might be forgettable.
Now of course the perfect song would have both catchy and memorable music and lyrics, but in a lot of cases the music first approach gives a little less weight to whether or not the lyrics resonate with the listener. As long as they go away humming your tune, you’ve succeeded.
Which Songwriter Are You?
By way of preface, just because you lean one way or the other doesn’t mean you won’t ever write songs from the opposite approach. Actually changing it up can be a refreshing exercise
In fact, one of my favorite songwriters of all time, Chris Cornell (Soundgarden and Audioslave), has historically been a music first songwriter. Riffs, melodies, and chord progressions were the genesis of many of his songs. Lyrics came last.
But on his first solo album after Soundgarden disbanded in the late 90s, he wrote a collection of poetry and then went in the studio to fit them into some new music. The result was definitely different than his previous outings, but is still one of my favorite albums to date.
But in general, we all tend to lean in one direction over the other. Think about the last three songs you wrote. Were they originated with music or lyrics? Why? Were you happy with how they turned out?
How about this new project you’re working on? How will you write these new songs?
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My name is Graham Cochrane and I'm the founder of The Recording Revolution, one of the world's most loved audio recording and mixing blogs with over 200,000 readers each month. 
I’ve always been more of a music-comes-first kind of guy. Mostly because I love writing instrumental music. Lyrics never really get to me the way melodies do. Which is why you’ll almost always find me writing music first.
On top of that, I am trully bad at writing lyrics.
However, one thing I do really like, is writing music on lyrics that someone else wrote for me. It allows me to develop a melody using the text and rythmic devices the writer already put in place.
It’s great because it serves as a limitation (and we all know limitations inspire creativity). It’s great because it pushes me to be more creative with my music. It gets me to places I wouldn’t have gone otherwise.
I really like writing a song this way. I find it really outputs something I wouldn’t have written otherwise. Last thing I did this way was an Elfmanesque musical tune for a crazy christmas song. I mean… that’s not something I would write off the top of my head. But with those lyrics in front of me, it all just sort of happened!
So yeah, that’s kind of my experience with this. I like writing music on it’s own, but I do love the surprises a given lyrical structure brings to my composing!
so I’ve been a songwriter for 10 years the words come off the page I was wondering if you could look at some of the melody my email is [email protected]
+Kevin Decock I’m the exact opposite, all the songs I’ve written don’t have any instrumentals, I want them to, but I’m better at just writing lyrics and memorizing the melody. Do you create music instrumentals? Would you be able to help me? my email is [email protected].
Thanks.
maganda ang song nato laluna kong music kero ka kung hindi hindi mo magegets yong music
I’m not a professional musician or writer myself, but I fantasize of being one in the future. I have started writing short poems and have been pondering on the technique of music writing so this post has helped me a bit. You may have lent a hand in creating a future amazing artist!
My wife Leigh and I have a collaborative songwriting partnership. For 26 years she has come up with LOTS of poems, but, written (mostly) to a formula she worked out. The result (imho) is probably a 60% strike rate. What I mean there is that I have been able to put music to them. Some have been WOW, that was quick, others..well. I also, personally, have written any of my songs from the instrument first. I have not found any constrictions personally with either way, other than me :_).
You’ve pretty much covered it all as usual Graham. I am on hold at the moment with my work, just moved and I literally have no access to THE room. It’s a mess, first song of the year was started just prior to the move.
I am curious as to how many people who come here are interested in collaboration to share our various talents. I know I get sick of being the one man does all. Just not sure of the logistics and allowing for various DAWs too.
Tony
Just to clarify.. I meant personally written many of my songs with instrument first. Wish we could edit our own post…
Hi Tony,
For collaboration with other musicians, writers, engineers,producers etc. I suggest that you take a look at themusicgateway.com
Thank you Dennis, shall do :).
Just a correction. I believe the correct address is “www.musicgateway.net”
The other one takes you to something else.
Thanks for the article Graham!
I’ve been thinking about this issue for awhile. I took on the EP writing challenge from Graham and adjusted it to my needs. I have/had about 40 songs that are “in progress”, if you know what I mean. Some choruses and verses here and there. So I decided to take the challenge to finish them all in few months.
The way I’ve always written songs is to come up with the lyrics and melody/rhythm at the same time. The basic idea behind this is a “phrasal approach”. In the context of songs a phrase is constructed of three basic elements: rhythm, melody and lyrics. In phrasal approach my intention in writing is to come up with a phrase (incl. rhythm, melody and lyrics) that best expresses the idea of what I want to say. Therefore I often begin my songwriting with a chorus, because in my mind, the chorus is the pinnacle of the song. I could say, I try to write a slogan (a musical one) that people will remember even if they hear it in a bus on their way to work.
As I started the challenge, I also started to think about changing my habits (btw. If I do something just by habit I rarely learn in the process). I wanted to make a great product, a pristine product. If my product is constructed of two parts, the lyrics and the music but the lyrics are not pristine, then I don’t have a pristine product. So I started to focus on my lyrics (without the music). Because if I want to be a great writer, the only way to get there is to write a lot (and read/listen lyrics). You learn what you practice! Then I did the same thing with the music until I could say “I like it”. I decided not to settle on OK lyrics or melodies anymore. Takes more time and effort, but also gives a better product.
-s
Lyric writing is always so interesting to me. If you strip down some of the best songs out there, the lyrics aren’t “that great” but the words with the feeling and groove of the music and the way its sung makes a huge difference.
Take “Streets with No Name” by U2. Joshua Tree, known as “one” of their best albums, and the opening line of the opening song is “I want to run, I want to hide, I want to tear down the walls that hold me inside.” This lyrics is known as one of the greatest opening lines to a record.
When you read it by itself, it sounds like something a 5 year old wrote it practicing their verb/noun usage. However, because of the music, and Bono’s way of singing it, it takes the lyric to a whole new level.
I’m not saying either way is better, but if you are a music-first guy like me, put down ANYTHING as lyrics, no matter how stupid it sounds to you in the moment – it just might inspire something down the road even better!
Haha! Sean is so right 🙂
Actually I do not know that song by U2, but those first lines make me wonder where they are going with it.
All of us connect to music differently. I think lyricists always focus on the great metaphors in a song even if the rhythm is great, they want a story and that story must make sense and people who are instrumentalists- those who actually play the music- their language is great arrangement of chords, minor notes etc, and that music has to flow and draw you in like a serenade
As a lyricist, I love play on words and some people do them brilliantly, and my ear is drawn to that. Sometimes however all the time spent on great lyrics can be lost if the music doesn’t caress them in the right places.
Sometimes I have so many great lyrics I try to fit them all and that can make one lose the song
I admire simple lyrics and sometimes I wish I could do that well, but I always feel there is a story to tell and sometimes the story has to be explained, but you’re absolutely right- when music is done right even I sometimes don’t focus on the words initially. Some beats are jut that good.
The best thing is a collaboration I think of a great lyricist and a great musician.
No one wants great lyrics with bad music, but one can forgive bad lyrics with great music.
I’m pretty sure someone else could have said all of what I just said in one sentence
A good song can have silly lyrics but if the music is bad it’s a bad song. That’s why it’s called “music” and not “lyrics”.
I like that
Silly is one thing, bad is another. Writing silly/throwaway lyrics that will bypass a listener’s bs filter is not easy!
Maybe I’m the exception, but I’m a very lyrics focused music first kinda guy. I’ve always found that the lyrics come easier when I’ve got some sort of chord structure or melody in mind. But that said I think it’s good to make it hard on yourself every now and again and start with the opposite of what you normally do.
I agree that once I have some lyrics I’m excited about, things really start to take off. I find I usually start with some chords or a riff. Then, when I’m coming up with lyric ideas to fit over that, whatever I find almost inevitably ends up blowing the original riff or chord progression to bits as things quickly change/mutate to fit the vision of the song that is coming out in the lyrics. A progression that started as a chunky metal sort of thing may end up serving a really upbeat pop sort of thing! However much I may like some of my initial musical ideas, nothing really comes to life until I’ve got some lyrical ideas to go with it.
From there, the two continuously leap frog over one another until the song is done.
Linking my soundcloud page to this
https://soundcloud.com/skipkent
An old band of mine played a lot of surf music. For the originals, the process was much the same, with the guitar melody taking the place of lyrics. Just jamming and making noise was of course a large part of it too!
There is another approach, Graham. In many of the songs I’ve written I first have a lyrical idea or maybe a catchy phrase. From there I write a melody to fit that line and most times, I then work my way through the entire song structure musically. Once I have that melody and structure I write the remainder of the lyric to fit. It’s a combination approach that helps me maintain meter and flow in the lyric. I’m able to hear the melody in my head or sometimes I’ll sketch out a scratch track to write against.
Paul
I just think music has to come first because the melody you’ve written is gonna affect the number of syllables in the line, the rhyming pattern etc. You have a puzzle that you have to fit your lyrics into the space that’s available. If you do lyrics first you then have the challenge of trying to make a melody that fits and has a good song structure etc, but with the limitations of the way you’ve written your lyrics that is just gonna be so hard to do because its hard enough to write a good melody etc when you dont have to fit it to something specific. But the other way round, you can always replace words and change things around slightly to make a lyric fit the melody whilst still retaining the overall meaning of the lyric. If you make these kinds of changes to a melody it could ruin it
Once you have a n inspiration, there is no right or wrong. Having said that, if you dream up a riff first it can sometimes be easy to fit a rhythm to it, another day there is no way to find a catchy rhythm to complement it. I find that a rhythm is core to making a simple catchy rjff jump in unexpected ways. Get the rhythm wrong and you bury it. To my mind, if you have lyrics that say something and excite yiu, they can be show horned into any music. Just study classics like hotel California. overall my take is that words are more flexible than music. Stick ‘and’ on the end of a line to make orange rhyme with sand. When you accept that one guitarists wrong note is another ones blues note, back to base, there are no rules, just what works, that’s why it is art.
Lyricists don’t really run out of lyrics Andy.
I can write an entire song and when I try to put music it does change a whole lot.
The biggest problem I face is divorcing great lyrics. That’s so hard to do but I try to save them somewhere for another song.
The biggest thing is not to be married to the lyrics and it’s progression the way it was created; you have to rearrange and change words all the time to make it fit. It’s a great mental exercise that actually forces you to think even more and pull out more lyrics when you thought you already had the perfect ones.
This is not a nightmare for a lyricist. It’s a good thing. In fact sometimes the hook changes completely and you can have a different song idea than you started with, so now you have two or more song idea instead of just one.
I started off as a lyricist becuase I was a drummer and didn’t play other instruments. But over the years I have learned guitar, piano, bass, ukulele, mandolin,harmonica and music theory. Now I can write a song from both sides. And sometimes I get both sides almost at the same time. I don’t have a preferred method but I just enjoy the process, especially when it comes to putting all the parts together and adding the vocals, harmonies and other instruments…
My personal preference is music first – then lyrics. All the songs so far on my soundcloud link are like that.
But I don’t think that approach should put the pressure off writing good lyrics instead of just decorative ones, like what so often happens in pop music (lyrics like”I can’t make it without you babe…” you get the picture).
What makes a song a “song” are lyrics that capture a clear emotion, by telling a story or by some other means.
I’m feeling that pressure right now, since I took up Graham’s challenge, and I’m in the process of completing the lyrics for 3 of the 5 “songs-to-be” that I chose for the EP.
Good luck to all of you who have taken up that challenge.
Phil https://soundcloud.com/phil-dahlen
Excellent thread you kicked off Graham. I’m 50/50. My phone is my best songwriting tool at the moment. I verbally record my song ideas to my phone, it might be a whistle, it might be me tapping my body as a body drum, or it might be a certain phrase that is ‘the hook’. I then take that initial idea, sometimes months later, and develop it into a song. I find that if the rhythm, melody or phrase excites me it’s good enough for me to spend the hours and hours developing it into a song. Music or lyric…..it’s a draw!
+1 on phone, work out rough on acoustic guitar or piano, record for later. And onwards.
I usually come up with a verse and a chorus, while playing my guitar. That is often enough to build my songs around. So I guess I’m a little bit of both, but mainly a music first lyrics last guy 🙂 I’m addicted to catchy hooks in the punk rock genre (not to poppy). Nive issue Graham.
Reading this immediately reminded me of Frank Zappa’s quotes about lyrics, taken from his book. Thought I’d share my favourite ones to show a viewpoint of this seriously music-first guy:
“Some of the stuff I write is in the ‘musically uncompromising boy-is-this-ever-hard-to-play’ category. Then there’s the other category — songs in which the ‘intrigue’ resides in the lyrics, rather than the music.
If a piece intends to actually tell a story, I don’t build an elaborate accompaniment because it gets in the way of the words.
I don’t have any pretensions about being a poet. My lyrics are there for entertainment purposes only — not to be taken internally. Some of them are truly stupid, some are slightly less stupid and few of them are sort of funny. Apart from the snide political stuff, which I enjoy writing, the rest of the lyrics wouldn’t exist at all if it weren’t for the fact that we live in a society where instrumental music is irrelevant — so if a guy expects to earn a living by providing musical entertainment for folks in the U.S.A., he’d better figure out how to do something with a human voice plopped on it.”
Guess that reinforces the advice that even placeholder lyrics are better than none at all (“scrambled eggs” for “Yesterday”, anyone?)
Great article, and great comments too.
I do both, but 80% of the time it’s music first. What usually happens is I’ll be “noodling” around on my guitar while watching tv or something, and suddenly a phrase pops out that catches my ear. Then the tv goes off and I start playing with that phrase or melody without distraction.
As that progresses I’ll start scatting over it, just looking for the texture of how lyrics might rest on top of it. If it seems to be building up nicely, I’ll quickly do a scratch recording of it, along with a vocal description of key, time, chord progression… etc. This really helps if I don’t come back to that song for weeks, or even months.
The other 20% of the time I’ll flip through an ongoing document of poetry that stretches back about 30 years, and a dedicated “lyrics diary” of ideas that goes back about 5 years and pick something from there to fit music to.
I find this method much harder for me. It sometimes feels too much like construction, rather than creation. Hard to explain.
Every once and a while though, the result is a gem. 🙂
BTW, my first post here. Been coming to the site for a couple of months, and have learned a lot. Thanks Graham!
I’ve written quite a few songs and have used both approaches. The best songs I’ve enjoyed creating is when all of the elements came to me at once. This is rare but it’s nice when it happens. For some reason most of the time the lyrics come to me at night when I’m ready to go to sleep and the music and melody come to me in the morning as soon as I wake up.
Lately, I’ve fallen into a hybrid sort of thing. I’ll start with a single lyrical verse. Then I pick up the guitar to work out the music. This generally leads me to tweak the lyrics (usually the phrasing) which then typically leads me to subsequent verses. Finally, I’ll work out the chorus and/or bridge based upon the music and the lyrical theme. Then I get with a co-writer and revise and add.
I’m with a lot of people here. Most of my songs have originated from trying out random chords on my guitar and when I found a good one, I moved on to add other chords that fit (very to do before I understood chord theory). The combination then led to a feeling, then the feeling to words and melody. Or, I’ve started with an idea, tied it to a hook to get a general feeling and then added words around that. I might try writing the words first at some point, but it probably will be just as difficult, but in very different ways.
I think music recommends a topic. i.e…when I’m noodle-ing around on a guitar or piano and a chord progression/riff starts to emerge, invariably, for me, the music has a kind of “mood” to it and touches something I care about or have mused over. With that…a basic topic presents itself. Then I start fitting lyrical and melody phrases together. A lot of times I’ll start singing nonsensical words/gibberish just to look for a flow of syllables and rhymes.
This is something I’ve thought about a lot. I like to write music first because it allows me to focus on hooks. Hooks are the best way to get your lyrics across because hooks force a listeners attention. If you really want people to hear what you have to say, you have to hook them. That happens musically. A good line will only reinforce the hook and make it that much better. That’s not to say you can’t write a good song with lyrics first. My latest song was more of a lyrics-first approach and I’m quite pleased with it. As always, don’t restrict your art to one approach. Experiment!
How about you Graham…what’s your usual approach?
Let me first say that I’m generally a melody-first songwriter.
That said, I don’t think there’s any excuse for bad lyrics. If you say you don’t care to write the best lyrics you can, then my question is, Why are you purposely not letting your song be the best song it can be?
You can have an incredible song that is highly memorable, but if the lyrics are lame, it’s a huge turn-off to anyone who cares enough to read them. This leads to the further question, Don’t you want to say interesting things and share your uniqueness with your audience? If not, why are you content to be mundane?
If you say you’re a bad lyricist then you’re being idle. Becoming a good lyricist takes hours and hours of hard work and practice, just like learning guitar or how to sing. The same principles apply. You can do it if you want to do it enough, just like anything else.
Here is one of the things that we can learn, no matter which way we write our songs: if we gravitate toward write our music first, it probably means that our “strong suite” is coming up with original and interesting melodies (at least to ourselves). That being my case, I try to work on my lyric-writing abilities, because I find that in an effort to finish up a song, I can live my lyrics a little stale and uninteresting.
For someone who has the gift of being a clever lyricist, one of the things that they would probably benefit from focusing on is their musical ideas.
Something that helps me in both areas is working with a like-minded songwriter. I our ideas have a synergistic effect on each other, we end up being a “force-multiplier” on each other! Higher quality ideas seem to arrived much faster and much more often.
A word of caution, however! If you end up working with a musician/songwriter who’s personality clashes with your own, it can have devastating effects on your ability to brainstorm and get quality work done in the studio! If you do not think that there is another person that you can work with effectively, it is probably a better idea to simply work solo.
Just my thoughts and experiences. 🙂
Great article Graham, most of the stuff I write starts with music and some non sense words that fit the melody, after I’m happy with the result I start writing lyrics.
But sometimes what I do is try to come up with a catchy phrase and then try to fit it within a melody, and I use that as the hook. After I’ve got the hook I write the melody for everything else and then the lyrics.
The issue that I have when writing lyrics first is that the music sometimes feel unnatural in the sense that the phrase may not be as musical as it could possibly be.
I find myself to be in the middle,meaning, at times I will start with music but find myself not being able to finish the music because I feel the lyrics are needed to help with the direction. And if I don’t have the lyrics then I need to start writing them and get to a certain place with the lyrics and music together to continue on and vice versa.
Thanks for the great post,
Lewis
Duluth GA
For me the music comes first, but I’ve been enjoying more and more the approach of putting music into poetry since, as you’ve said, it tends to results in less conventional song structures. Another reason for this is that I have the pleasure to include more paroxytones than oxytones later when I write my own lyrics to the tune. This makes a big difference because, since I write in Portuguese, it’s much harder to end verses using mostly oxytones without sounding too repetitive in my rhymes.
Cool! Great example of lyric first: Jim Morrison of The Doors. (he’d write poetry and the band would put music to it)
Great example of music first: James Hetfield of Metallica. He writes vocal melodies first and puts lyrics afterwards. (There’s a hilarious demo of “Wherever I May Roam” that is literally him singing “Da da da na na na” the whole time.
I think I tend to do music first. But I usually base the music off a concept or idea that the lyrics will eventually be about. Though sometimes, the final result is much different than my initial idea. Plato once said that art is not creating something, it’s discovering something. (weird, huh?)
A lot of bands were music first, like led zeppelin (they play the music and Page (at the beginning) and Plant (some times after, like in the Led Zeppelin III album) wrote the lyrics), the stooges (from some interviews I noticed than the guitarist or the bass player came down with a riff and Iggy Pop write the lyrics on it).
The clash instead (following what they say on interviews, of course) were more a lyric-centered band, were Joe Strummer write lyrics first and Mick Jones make on the lyrics melodies and music.
For me, I May get an inspiration from a phrase or a progression and develop from their. I wrote a song around a phrase that just popped out of my head “I’ve lived more life than I have left”. Other times the inspiration comes from a progression or the rhythm pattern I find, and I find a lot because I play a right hand guitar upside down, I’m left handed, that leads to some strange chordings. Sometimes I have a progression that doesn’t seem to lend itself to words that has to become an instrumental.
By the way: I’m awfully impatient and absolutely uninspired when it comes to writing the lyrics. So I kept wondering if there would be any site out there where lyrics-writers and poets really want to share there ouput…?
Joesy,
if you have found such a site, please, let me know. I have the same problem as you have. Thank you in advance. Kirill.Kovzel(at)gmail.com
There’s another approach which can come before all the above which is a title. Sometimes if you can nail a great idea/title the lyrics and music can often flow like a stream of consciousness. Of course, any way is valid if it works for you, but if you are writing to deadlines it can good practice to keep a book of titles/ideas to revisit. Re lyrics- I like the quote from Sammy Cahn ‘Poetry is meant for the eye, lyrics for the ear’. Lyrics need to sing well.
Great point! I also sometimes write in according to a title that I thought of previously, which by itself leads to a general concept for the lyrics. Usually the lyrics will deviate from what I originally intended, but that’s also part of the fun.
Kudos to you Graham :), this is an important issue you are dealing with.
I don’t think there’s a simple answer to this question. Lyrics first or music first? Which is more relevant to you; an opera or a symphony? “Wild thing” or “Heaven knows I’m Miserable Now”?
Any kind of creative work demands you surrender yourself to the music or text you are working on. A gut feeling, so to speak. Feeling is something that combines analysis and the subconcious. It’s in the brain and in your heart.
When you realise you’ve written and composed something that “speaks” to you honestly, you’re on the right track – not on a buss.
Pun intended.
For me, usually,its almost together. First I set something musical, then I start the lyrics and progress developing the musical variations and lyrics altogether. Of course, it can change anytime.
Great discussion! For me, starting with lyrics is too open ended. There are a million possibilities and I get overwhelmed. Having a chord structure or some type of framework really helps. Once the parameters are established, it’s a lot easier to come up with the basic idea, melody, hook, etc. Then, after the basic melody and chorus are in place, it’s time to really develop the verses to support the song’s theme.
Oh come on guys, everybody knows that lyrics exist as a reason to play guitar! But seriously, for me both flow out at once. And then after, maybe change or re-arrange a word or chord or two. But mostly songs come out as a finished product.
In recent years I’d say music comes first almost always. This wasn’t always the case. In my younger years I wrote lyrics almost exclusively for a couple years. At the time I didn’t really have much in terms of gear, so most of my music was in my head. I remember the time fondly because my imagination was so vivid then. I could compose entire albums in my head, hearing every part. A lot of this was done with my voice, imitating instruments, and some of it was just pure imagining. Maybe it sounds silly, and maybe it even is a little, but I filled many notebooks with lyrics and the music I made in my head became as real to me as music made any other way. I still have those notebooks, which are now over 20 years old, and every now and then I even harken back to them for some lyrics.
I personally write the music first, I’ll open my writing template in protools which has my tracks all gain staged with guitar rig 5 and ssd4 for my drums. I’ll tap tempo in my drums and find a drum groove that’s close to what I have in mind. Then I’ll double track my rhythm guitars panned hard left and right. Next I’ll put down a bass line and then arm a lead guitar track and loop what I’ve got down and play along. Sometimes I’ll come up with a solo or just a catchy lead line melody but I find most of the time one of these two end up implying a vocal melody or counter melody. Then I just work out a complimentary verse or chorus part, bridge and cut and paste to give the song flow.
Sometimes I just play along with drum loops for inspiration or get on my acoustic and write a finger picked melody. When fingerpicking I am always looking to further a melody within the picked bass line and open strings. Melody is what keeps a listener interested the most that’s why something as ugly and dissonant as Soundgardens ” 4th of July” works so well, the vocal melody takes that song to perfection.
Thanks Graham for this great recording resource, provides food for thought which can work for any genre not just mixing techniques. My own mixes have benefitted greatly from your videos especially the gain staging one. Focusing on getting correct levels on my guitar tracks has been the single best move in getting my guitar tone sounding great. Euphoria morning is a great album think it just shocked a lot of Soundgardens fans that it sounded so different.
Just wanted to say that I’m so glad I finally heard someone else say something about Euphoria Morning. IMHO, one of the most amazing records of the last 20 years.
And I put music first. Mostly because I’m a musician first and a songwriter second. Hiatus Kaiyote, Yes, Radiohead… The words are secondary to the music, and the music isn’t constricted by any language as a result.
I tend to write music first too, but I don’t really see it as one being constrained by the other. I mean, if you have your verse melody composed, and you come up with a great line one syllable too many, I would see what slight variation in rhythm I could come up with to make it work. On the other side of the coin, if I write some lyric I really like and come up with music later, I may play around with the words to work it into the melody.
Even poetry is constrained to some extent by the cadence of the poem or the word you are rhyming with (if you are rhyming).
It’s about the music, music inspires me to write. Often times I’ll produce a piece of music that I love but no lyrics or concepts come to me when l
I listen to it. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that I have ”said all I have to say” through the music. This is usually the music I leave for other artists. The pieces that inspire me tend to make the final album.
Great to see you around Carrington!
I tend to write a lyrical hook with a melody first and then build around it. I have a theme and sometimes have the lyrics for the verse. Then I start to figure out the chords to the hook which usually ends up being the chorus. I guess that’s more of a lyric first although the music is kind of there cause I gave the melody. I often change lyrics if they don’t sing well.
AS WE CAN SEE FROM ALL THE FOROM ABOVE THERE IS NO RULLES IN MUSICE OR LYRICES BECUESE THOSE THINGS COME FROME THE HART & THE ONLY RULE WITH THE HART IS THAT IT GOTS BEATS!! BUT REALY THERES NO RULES WICH COMES FAIRST THE WORDS OR THE MUSICE!! BUT IT WILL INFLUANCE ON YOUR SONG OR ON YOUR MUSICE IN THE WAY OF GIVING IT A NOTHER COLLER OR DIFRENT COLLER EACH TIME DEPENDS HOW U START. BUT NOT IN THE WAY OF WRIGHT OR WRONG!!!!! THATS MY OPINION FROM MY PERSONAL EXPIRENS (sorry for my english i know its bad)
I generally start a song with a melody that pops into my head. Often times I find that the lyrics shortly follow though because often when I think of a melody it is due to something I feel. Consequently, that same feeling will inevitably inspire lyrics that follow suit. I used to be a lyrics are only there to serve the melody kind of guy whenever I first started writing music, but now I think it’s impossible to say that one is more important than the other.
I usually have and idea of some kind of lyrics, I play few chords on the guitar for have some kind of timing and basic idea of what the song wuold be, and i write the lyrics.
When I started to do original songs with my band (one year ago circa) I prepare “at home” much of the song structure, but with the time when in my band we develop more musical affinity together, I start to write lyrics and prepare only few riff or chord progression, and I develop the song with my band.
It is a more long procedure to do, but it gives more satisfaction at the end. I think I will try to do something starting from the music and not for the lyrics, before was pretty difficult for me, as a singerlead guitarist, but now I develop more coordination when I sing and play at the same time.
I record by my self music , but I record my voice only a few time, just for practise with vocals mixing.
I’m defenately a music first guy. I suck at creating lyrics, I think it’s because I’m not that much of a singer. So I haven’t spent that much time on trying out lyrical ideas by singing them. But it’s never to late to change that, I’ll have to work on my week skills.
Make it come from he heart
For me, I love to make the music first. I think Im good at songwriting but I get all frazzled when I get writers block so I usually just give up for a while. So right now I have, like many others, a ton of unfinished lyrics that I just never went back to…
The music comes so easy sometimes, but even with that I have tons of unfinished tracks that I have started based on something I heard or saw, but did not finish…trend? Yes possibly!
I think either way works, it all depends on what you are feeling that day. One thing I do a lot is actually take my beats into the car and while driving I freestyle singing PR rapping or poetry. Sometimes I come up with some slick stuff…other times not so much, but it gives me a base….Now if I could only finish a few it might be interesting.
“I really like it when you write songs that are silly and mean nothing, too. You don’t have to try to write ‘Imagine’ every time you sit down with a pen and paper” – Dave Grohl
starting my career as a singer, i suppose i was a lyricist first. however over many years i’ve added keyboard and guitar skills as well as loops and midi to create songs. what i’m getting at is developing skills that allow for songs to come in whatever way gets the inspiration to move a piece forward without getting locked into an one or the other coming “first”; meaning whatever germ that allows the song to come to life is what takes precedence, and is built upon. it allows me to be more fruitful in a focused way. as well, i note a good “concept” for a song should be noted too. lyrics will write themselves with a good concept, imo, along with framing a musical identity for how the music should accompany.
For the last three songs I wrote, the beat came first for two and a guitar riff was first for the third. But I had a lyrical idea for all three before I started; a few keywords that I wanted to hit and maybe the melody associated with them. So I suppose that means they all came first, or second, or last. It’s totally organic.
Being a guitarist primarily, I’m very much a music first type. I have written music to lyrics, but it always feel counter intuitive for me. When I do write lyrics first I ten to just kind of ramble. I write a paragraph or two of vague thematic sentences and end up rewriting most of it when the music is done. My personal favourite approach is to come up with a them to the lyrics, like a tag line or just feeling or piece of a story and write the music with that theme in mind. That way the feeling of the music and the lyrics match, but the phrasing and melody can be paired with what the guitar is doing. I feel like this approach is the best of both worlds.
With my beginnings as a bad poet I had to catch up to the music end of it a year or two later but I’ve always tried to set the two (lyrics vs. poetry) apart. If I am writing a song it is mostly music first as it speaks volumes to where I want and/or need to take the lyric. To me, poetry is a separate entity altogether and can/should be performed with or without a music soundtrack.
Hmmmmm… Music or Lyrics – kinda like asking which wing on an airplane is more important.
I like to have lyrics that stand on their own without music, and melodies that stand on their own without lyrics. Put them together and you might just have something!
Comments of contemporary composers are interesting. But the most valuable response would be one that deals with lyrics-writing in the 1920s-1040s era of pop music ballads. For example, what I view as the finest lyric of that kind, written for “Smoke Gets In Your Eyes.” Can anyone give insights into that kind of lyric-music collaboration? You have my e=mail. My phone in Oregon is 541-344-0282. – George Beres
I always start with the music, but I’ve never had any lyric before, so it’s pretty much a necessity. More specifically I start with a chord progression, and develop a melody depending on what I’m doing. For example, a fugue needs a different sort of melody than a sonata.
Do them both! As a guitarist/singer , when working with lyric, I’m singing it as I go along. I wrote a song after dreaming the bass/guitar parts and vocals! Often, music written first inspires the title and then the verse/chorus write themselves. Creative visualization, otherwise known in the old days as imagination , is your best friend. Try to hear it in your head, then figure out how to put it in the airwaves. Don’t decide on parts/changes too quick, go over variations and write the hugest thing you can imagine. Words on paper help you remember, but it’s lyrics, so sing them with your instrument. Record Well! 😉
I love to write n i do start a song by writing the lyrics first . Bcoz wat i noticed is , yes music is very influential indeed , it can cover over a bad lyrics or jst words , bt a song needs both , the best lyrics needs the best music to survive in this world … So i give my 100% first on lyrics n thn the same on the music coz no matter wat both r incomplete without eachother. And then while i combine them togethr i could mk few adjustments on both …. N tats when quality song comes up ….
what about me who is a beginner, what can i do to improve on my songs
Make them personal
Hello,
I was looking to see if there was a proper way of doing this because for me it goes either way.
But what I have realised is that lyrics first or music first is the same thing. They are both expressions of the soul. Like a painting or any other work of art. It is an expression of your soul. But where they diverge is that the more you write (lyrically or musically) the narrower your path and options become. If you start with just a tune or melody and then add lyrics to it or vice versa, start with a line or two and then sing the lines. You will see that they really are the same thing. But the more you write the more they diverge.
This can be expressed mathematically.
If you throw a die, the chance of getting any number is 1/6.
If you throw 2 dice, then the chance of getting the same number is still 1/6.
If you throw 3 dice, then the chance of getting the same number 3 times is 1/36.
So the more you create the harder it becomes to match it.
1 die is like having one line of lyric or one melody/tune.
3 dice is like having 3 lines of lyrics or a melody and bridge and etc.
It just makes it harder to connect things!! Keep it simple and think of both sides always (unless you are composing classical music only)!
I am the lyrics first kind of person but when it comes to the music i get really stuck and takes me ages to get a couple of notes and chourds together can anyone help me ?
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I was reading through the comments and I feel like I might be an odd man, or woman, out. The songs I write come to me at random times, but when they come, they always have a melody attached. So while I’m writing the lyrics, I am also singing along. The problem I have is that I can’t write the music side of it. I usually just end up recording a voice memo and leaving it there. If anyone is willing to help me with the music side, let me know. Email is : [email protected]
I have never written a song, but want to. Where do I start?
For a little background, I am a drummer and sing backup in my band. I have ideas for songs and have come up with some lyrics, but need a guide to put it all together. Any ideas?
I have always been a music first – since I AM a musician – who really doesn’t sing much or write much – I leave the melody up to the vocalist to decide – and I’ve had some real nice outcomes when running across a great lyricist who sings great as well…..
on the other hand – I can write to lyrics, poems or scenes of a movie ….
anyway …. I AM always looking for knowledge and wisdom in this arena ..
it’s so much easier for me to “finish” a song of I write the lyrics first, but it’s also fun to change it up sometimes.
I’m a 13 year old girl. I’ve wrote 5 songs and believe in writing lyrics first. Actually I ain’t much good at instrumental music, that’s the reason why I choose to write lyrics first.
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the posts. It was real help for the beginners like us. Cheers!
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It really depends on what type of song you want to write, I’ve found the quick and hassle-free way to a great song is lyrics first. If you’re good with melody, chord progressions and have a decent ammount of music theory then the music doesn’t have to suffer on a lyrics first approach. If you’re a riffer and don’t use many layers in your songs, music first. Personally it’s much less annoying to come up with a great melody for great lyrics, than it is to put great lyrics to a great melody.
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Great info. Lucky me I ran across your website by chance (stumbleupon).
I have saved as a favorite for later!
I think most of this misses the real point. It’s not a question of music first or lyrics first. The first thing you need is the beat and the rhythm. If you have that going through your mind and body both the lyrics and the words will come. Which is not to say that you won’t have a lot of revising to do. You probably will. But for a first draft of each, this is the way to go.
I’ve taken both approaches. I’m more a natural musician than lyricist though, so usually music comes first. On rare occasions, both come simultaneously, and those are usually the best songs.
Hello I have been playing guitar for a year and a few weeks now but I cannot for the life of me find the right sound and I cant find any other chords that doesn’t go with my vocals and match pitch and I try changing rhythms but they come out the same ive been trying to write a song that is upbeat and I can harmonize with perfectly but I cannot find any different sounds the chords I sing with are G,C,E,n another type of G chord any tips would be awesome 🙂 My email is [email protected] and a possible tip for better lyrics
I have only been at composing for like about 15 mins for my first ever song. I think maybe I am the music-first-type-of-guy. Anyway lets hope all goes well and I get really good for my GCSEs afterwards. Wish me luck
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